We're moving Forums to the Community pages. Click here for more information and updates.

Pokémon Forums

Saturday 8:30 AM on Cartoon NetworkIn Season

Movie Discussion: Zoroark Master of Illusions

  • Avatar of Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111

    [21]Feb 9, 2011
    • member since: 06/27/07
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 9,508

    The final movie of the Sinnoh Arc, much like all movies which are in a region's ending season we get a sneak peak of some Pokemon that'll be in the coming new Generation. But talk of the new Generation can wait for when the anime's episode discussions for when Ash gets there, for now we're here to talk about the thirteenth Pokemon movie, Pokemon: Zoroark: Master of Illusions. Ignoring the beginning which was a bit confusing due to them cutting out an impotent scene (I'll go into that later as it also explains some of my coming "watching" comments) I thought that the middle of the movie was good and if you REALLY want my opinion on the beginning of the movie it was okay too. Overall the movie was alright but one thing which kind of annoyed me was that at the very end and in some parts of the movie the main antagonist, Kodai, wasn't that good of a villain mostly because he made dumb decisions. Being I made most of my comments below, there are two things about Zorua I want to ask that I never did in my "watching" comments. First why is Zorua able to talk but Zoroark can't? Second why does Zorua call Zoroark "mima" instead of just "mama"? I would understand if for the TV airing they were trying to keep it a "surprise" but they never fully revealed that Zoroark was Zorua's mother so they might as well have just had it say "mama". But with that said Zorua was still an interesting characters and the only character which I felt could have at least have been written more competently was Kodai as I said before.

    Now before I post my "watching" comments, I first need to address the fact that in the TV airing they were forced to cut out several beginning scenes in the movie. In addition to the usual scenes of the narrator explaining the Pokemon world to us and introducing us to Ash & co. (though this was a rather interesting one as it showed Ash battling Jimmy (who is based off Gold)!), there is a scene where Ash & co. (along with a disguised Team Rocket) are watching a Pokemon Baccer game (Note: in the "watching" comments I say Bocker) and this is the first time we see Kodai and he's using the Legendary Beasts to play a match and I guess this inspired Ash & co. and Team Rocket to head toward Crown City. I mention this because in the beginning of the TV airing when we see Team Rocket they mentioned the Legendary Beasts but not by name or their title, so for those who don't know about this cut beginning are left confused as apparently there are three Legendary Pokemon in Crown City and it isn't revealed until later that the Legendary Pokemon Team Rocket were talking about were the Legendary Beasts. There's also another scene that was the first appearance of Zorua and Zoroark which showed how Zoroark was able to transform into the Legendary Beasts and how Zorua escaped, however besides answering the Zoroark question these scenes could be cut out and the TV airings Zorua and Zoroark appearance also made for a nice debut appearance. Now with these questions answered, onto my "watching" comments which I had cut into chunks for each individual part I had to watch because it's easier so sorry to all those who don't like it when I do that. Now onto the movie:

    Movies Are Like Pokemon Contests, It's Ash & Co's Next Place They Go:
    00:52 - Was that tree suppose to be the Tree of Beginning? While I don't think it was, you never know what they're trying to say in these openings sometimes.
    01:51 - Even in the movies they get lost, then again I suppose that's what happens when you use a Johto mapping device in a non-Johto region.
    02:22 - Wow Brock, that's the most lazy justification to getting lost I have ever heard. But at least they called him out on it.
    02:43 - Huh? Three Legendary Pokemon? Did the opening detail something about this and I just missed it? Oh, hello demonic Skiploom? Eek, it is demonic!
    03:15 - EEP! IT WAS THE DEVIL IN DISGUISE... And it's in the form of Shadow the Hedgehog if he was a fox...
    03:56 - Okay, what was the point of it transforming and transforming back?
    04:19 - Well Brock aren't you going to be sending out anything?
    04:28 - PIPLUP FAIL! And would you believe it was THAT which made the Vigoroth leave, probably out of sympathy.
    05:03 - It's talking... wait, telepathy? Okay, I know we're technically not to suppose to know anything about Zorua yet, but it's a DARK-type Pokemon, how is it using telepathy?
    06:26 - What is Pikachu and Piplup going on about? Apparently Ash and Dawn know what they're saying. Oh, it was just they wanted to help, like Ash & co. weren't going to do that anyway?
    06:47 - It can transform into people? (By the way, can you already introduce yourself?) NO KIDDING BROCK! I couldn't have guess that after seeing it transform into a Vigoroth and now Ash!
    07:01 - Hm, so I guess Zorua has the Duplica Ditto problem, it can transform BUT there is always a problem, aside from Zorua not even trying to act like what it transforms into. Though it looks like this is only for non-Pokemon transformations.
    07:20 - What? No! This doesn't look ominous at all. The shady people with the Ghost-types, I'm sure they're good guys. Hey an older version of the thing Ash & co. met (it still hasn't introduced itself).
    07:48 - Oh, we're told it's evolutions name (the one in the TITLE) but not it's pre-evolution. Know what, forget it, I'm calling it Zorua even if it never says it (which I will complain about if that turns out to be the case).
    08:11 - Um, artists, the top of this goon's head is missing. Anyway we now know the name of the antagonist, Kodai, and he wants to... show Crown City that Zoroark can transform?
    08:25 - Oh yay, I doubt people will hear THOSE jet cameras fly above their heads.
    08:39 - Celebi! Well that was a random Legendary Pokemon to just throw in! Hm, I guess that's one of the three Team Rocket must be talking about, maybe the other two are a Mew and Jirachi?
    09:32 - ... So the purpose of that minute sequence was? I'm not getting an answer, am I?
    09:51 - Oh come on, we already had a completely pointless scene, we don't need another unless we're going to meet this Coronith Fighters... what's Coronith?
    10:09 - I don't see why she is acting surprise, being Celebi just passed by a statue of itself I would guess already know that there is a Celebi living in the city.
    10:30 - Oh, nevermind, apparently Celebi has been gone from the city... that only creates more questions...
    10:52 - Laid to waste? For them wasting away the trees and flowers look pretty healthy!
    11:27 - GAH! Okay, so I'm guessing transforming isn't the only thing which Zoroark plans on doing to the city... wait Entei, Raikou, and Suicune? Why is Kodai attacking the city? Did they do something to him?
    12:09 - Um... um... Coronith Warrior Fangirl or whatever your name is, you may want to start running... or climb up a lamp pole, that works too.
    12:50 - Oh, NOW we get Zorua's name and it's from the villain!
    13:04 - Okay using Suicune's power to cause a flood is bad... BUT NOW AS ENTEI IT'S TRAILING FIRE! Geez whatever this city did to Kodai has to pretty bad, though looking at him I wouldn't be surprised if he was just a psychopath.
    13:42 - YOU FLOODED AND BURNED SEVERAL BLOCKS OF A CITY, NOT TO MENTION ANYONE WHO POSSIBLY GOT HURT OR DIED, I DON'T THINK THEY'LL ACCEPT YOUR "APOLOGY"!
    14:26 - Oh, nevermind, this is all just propaganda, now he's going to promise that he'll stop Zoroark and the Legendary Beasts for... for... okay we still need that part of the plan but still.

    As Long As Bocker Doesn't Have Any Vuvuzelas, I'm Okay With It:
    00:17 - Geez, it looks like out of the Legendary Beasts that Raikou has the most wide spreading power... hey, that's a Suicune of a different color, of shiny color! Surprised
    00:43 - A Shiny Entei, and I'm going to assume that... yup, Shiny Raikou! So I guess Kodai's plan is to attract the Legendary Beasts and capture them? Won't people kind of notice that the Legendary Beasts you caught are a different color of the ones terrorizing the city?
    01:24 - Pokemon Bocker?... Do you mean soccer? Oh, not now Brock, a city is in the middle of being completely destroyed (I'm personally waiting for someone to say "Alls well that ends well"...).
    01:59 - Wait, was that why Ash & co. were heading to Crown City? Um intro, it would have been a good idea to have FILLED US IN ON THAT instead of stating the obvious "Ash & co. are lost"! AND WHAT'S POKEMON BOCKER!
    02:05 - Yes, the city is being DESTROYED yet as long as the Bocker match remains on schedule everything will be fine, this is just as bad as saying "Alls well that ends well"!
    02:30 - Yes Zorua, freak out and transform into a person in a middle of a crowd, surely no one will pay attention to you or for those ho do will simply go back to watching the monitor.
    02:59 - Wait Dawn, you know who this Kodai person is? MOVIE IT'S A BAD IDEA TO HAVE ALL THE CHARACTERS KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON YET NOT TELLING THE VIEWERS ANYTHING!
    03:28 - Okay, so I'm assuming this will be the movie companion character being he seems to know more then Ash & co. and doesn't mind sharing this with the viewers either.
    03:47 - So Kodai wants Celebi maybe? Well I suppose Celebi does need a normal Pokemon movie being Pokemon 4Ever had that out of place dead grass monster.
    04:59 - Vision? And now he's having some sort of attack, so Kodai's psychic? And of course we see Ash & co. (and the new companion and his assistant Roina, Zorua in disguise? Also where's Pikachu?) in the vision stopping Kodai to get a time ripple... whatever that's suppose to be.
    05:09 - So now that I have a second to talk about it, how long do you think it'll take Ash & co. to realize what "Mima" actually is? Oh, and the movie companion is Carl.
    06:23 - Oh sweet Arceus, please don't let this turn into a "the mass media is EVIL" message.
    06:48 - Is there any reason Zorua keeps transforming into Ash & co.? Especially if seconds later it'll be transforming back?
    08:03 - Um, did you really have to go through all that to re-capture Zoroark? Being it thought you still had Zorua it would have probably returned to base on its own, in addition you now pretty much proven you don't have Zorua so if Zoroark ever escaped...
    09:18 - So it seems thar Roina is already planning something behind Kodai's back, that or she's just going to play some Farmville.
    10:52 - Ash, why do you still insist you're able to do things Pokemon can? You've been through 4 regions by now, haven't you realized Pokemon can do things humans can't yet? And why did Zorua transform into Dawn again... then again with the looks on its and Dawn's face I guess it was to annoy Dawn.
    11:15 - Zorua being you're using telepathy you don't have to SCREAM, if Zoroark was nearby it would hear you in its mind.
    11:53 - That it's a different bus stop? I mean is that the ONLY bus stop in the city? Also how was Zoroark able to turn into the Legendary Beasts, did it meet a trio of them before?
    13:49 - No your not, you just HAD a vision, how's that showing you're losing your power?

    Oh Yay, This Movie Has A Celebi In It:
    00:15 - Well who said a Time Ripple will appear if you used Forsight? For all you know Foresight doesn't reveal time and space anomalies?
    00:40 - Hold it, did he just call his goon "Goon"? Okay, movie, we know he's Kodai's goon, you don't have to outright name him that for the viewers to get it, no matter how funny it is.
    01:07 - So am I to guess when Team Rocket said three Legendary Pokemon they were talking about the Legendary Beasts? Actually Kodai did say he was bringing them in the news announcement (how people believed he was going to I'll never know). Also why are JOHTO Legendaries hanging out in SINNOH, are we still advertising for HeartGold & SoulSilver?
    01:21 - Okay you just said there were a whole bunch of those statues around the city, how do you know this is the exact one shown to be destroyed besides from plot convenience?
    02:10 - What attack was that? Slash? But of course destroying brought attention to itself and gets taken out by the Pokemon belonging to those people who were talking about Celebi's return. Also apparently Carl knows them.
    03:18 - Worked a little too well? It's Sleep Powder, it puts things to sleep, it looks like it's working exactly as it should.
    05:49 - Well Zorua, look at it from there eyes, Zoroark is going throughout the city seemingly destroying things and you are its pre-evolution and are looking for it, they probably think you're here to cause trouble too.
    06:14 - Piplup Fail. Though this time the Pokemon just ignores Piplup.
    07:27 - Berries? Celebi is able to turn flowers into berries? And this for some reason makes the Pokemon friendly toward Zorua, Pikachu, and Piplup.
    07:51 - LOL, okay I'll admit Celebi freaking out back there was funny. Wait, you can't fly as Celebi? Then how come when you were a Skiploom you were able to float (rather lousy but still floating) like one?
    09:07 - Carl why are you acting surprise about that? YOU told Ash & co. that Kodai was able to see into the future!
    09:43 - I didn't say it before, but how is Goon able to breath underwater? Oh, that tree in the beginning, so I guess it wasn't the Tree of Beginning.
    12:30 - Bision, what's Bision? Oh, and it turns out Roina is a reporter too and knows Carl.

    Looks Like They Finally Got The Meaning Of "Stable Time Loop":
    00:32 - Or the past since Celebi can travel from any place in time it wants.
    01:00 - So in other words Kodai's plan is to make it so that he can increase and control his vision power.
    01:42 - I guess Foresight does reveal the Time Ripple, also how come Kodai evolved his Misdreavus but not his Shuppet?
    02:58 - Ah, and Kodai absorbing the first Time Ripple caused the plants to die. Okay then, so assuming thing prevents Celebi from time travelling, how did Celebi get its power to time travel back or did the people working to grow back the plants do that?
    04:09 - If the power reversed shouldn't that mean instead of dieing the plants should have began de-aging (and why are just the plants effected)?
    04:59 - Well after you stole the time energy from it the first time I would think Celebi would have decided to carry the time energy around with it.
    05:05 - How does he know its fading?
    05:31 - While the plants dieing again would be a bad thing, I would be worried about a PSYCHOPATH getting a hold of the power to see into the future! I mean come on, set up your priorities of what is most urgent!
    05:53 - Piplup Fail, also is Piplup's beak causing a streak in the tree?
    07:18 - So wait, the vines are fake? Then how come Shuppet and Mismagius are acting as if the vines are real? Does everytime Zorua and Zoroark transform they release a hallucinogen which makes you think their illusions are real thus you can "feel" it?
    07:43 - Yay, you just made "Mima" bear mad (just incase for those of you at home who still don't know what "Mima" means). Oh and the Legendary Beasts are here too, then again I guess I can see where Kodai gets the idea he's losing his power being he didn't see the strong angry Pokemon that are heading his way.
    10:41 - Of course they begin attacking Zoroark, then again from what the Legendary Beasts could probably see, Zoroark is the one causing the chaos in the town.
    12:14 - Togekiss! Though where is Staraptor, I mean I know they only needed Togekiss but still Staraptor could be at least be given some screen time. And now where did Togekiss go?
    13:27 - Why is Zoroark disguised as Suicune, it's not like if it runs into Entei or Raikou it could fool them as Zoroark isn't shiny (though from what we're told, it can turn into the shiny colors so there is no reason why it shouldn't if it's trying to trick the other Legendary Beasts).
    13:47 - And that flame trail is only making it easier for them to follow you! I'm going to guess Zoroark is trying to lead them to Kodai to prove its innocence and show them who they should be fighting.



    (Continued Below)

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111

    [22]Feb 9, 2011
    • member since: 06/27/07
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 9,508

    (CONTINUED FROM ABOVE)


    This Is What Happens To Villains Who Don't Tie Up Loose Ends:
    01:20
    - So Celebi just so happened to put its Time Ripple at the prototype Time Counter, the only Time Counter which Kodai didn't know about... this is pushing my suspension of disbelief.
    01:30
    - And Pikachu didn't hear it when it was flying to the window?
    02:18
    - Carl, what was the point you were trying to make? It's not like they needed an inspirational speech, maybe telling them where there is a shortcut... oh nevermin... wait, Brock knew where the shortcut was? Dub writers did you mess up here?
    03:24
    - Now they're attacking Zoroark? Why not instead take the time the Legendary Beasts think they are trapped and explain to them Zoroark isn't to blame for all this?
    04:57
    - Um, Brock, Dawn, the help is appreciated but you still let Kodai get through! You have Mamoswine, you could have probably used Ice Shard to freeze the water.
    06:17
    - Why don't you you throw out all of your Pokemon! I would understand why Brock wouldn't want to send out Happiny, but Dawn sill has Pachirisu, Buneary, Cyndaquil, and Togekiss!
    06:57
    - Fooled you. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1ebGuKeuT_0
    09:30
    - You know if you keep attacking Zoroark it may decide that even if it means Zorua would get hurt it in your hands is far worse and attack you anyway.
    10:02
    - Yay, and now that Carl and Roina have evidence against you you'll probably be sent to jail (admittedly it would be a strange case but still I doubt your vision power will help keep you above the law and even if you aren't jailed then no one would trust you). So overall, because you didn't get the evidence from Roina, you lose!
    10:30
    - YES THEY WILL BECAUSE ROINA HAS THE EVIDENCE!
    11:17
    - Oh, Zoroark used its illusion powers to make Kodai think he won... but why stop the illusion if Celebi is still trapped unless... oh, nevermind, and now Carl and Roina have a confession too.


    Ending On A Promise That Ash Probably Won't Keep:
    00:23 - ... Yes, attack Zorua heading back to its "Mima" instead of Carl's camera WHICH HAS YOUR CONFESSION ON IT! Now not only will you be jailed for the destruction of Crown City's plants 20 years ago and the false evacuation of the city, just add Pokemon cruelty to the list.
    00:39 - And now he's electrocuting Zoroark... GO AFTER THE CAMERA! You're the most dumbest villain ever! Know what, forget sending Kodai to jail, let Zoroark kill him.
    02:05 - Oh, by the way, I don't think the Legendary Beasts are happy you made the people think they were bad.
    02:26 - Um, can someone already capture Kodai? I know Zoroark just collapsed but still as long as Kodai is running around he's still a threat to the Time Ripple. Oh, nevermind, Zoroark took care of it.
    03:20 - Just use Celebi already to heal Zoroark.
    04:55 - Called it.
    08:03 - Why does it show Kodai surrounded with energy in the video? If that was an illusion shouldn't it not have shown on camer... you know what, forget it, I give up trying to work out how Zorua's and Zoroark's illusion powers work.
    08:49 - Huh, why is Ash with Kodai and Roina... oh, it's Zorua and Zoroark, very funny.
    09:31 - So make sure to tune into Pokemon next season! And Zorua, word from the wise, don't count on it. Let's just say there is a certain Pidgeot near Pallet Town which can tell you Ash's promises mean nothing. What a protagonist.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Shiny_missingno

    Shiny_missingno

    [23]Feb 9, 2011
    • member since: 07/12/09
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 1,528

    Uh..Pikachu?


    It's actually Rowena....Goone..Meema, not Mima, Vision is the password

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111

    [24]Feb 9, 2011
    • member since: 06/27/07
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 9,508

    Shiny_missingno wrote:


    Uh..Pikachu?


    It's actually Rowena....Goone..Meema, not Mima, Vision is the password



    If you couldn't tell from my Bocker/Baccer comment, I got lazy.


    Though if everyone wants I can go back and change their names to how they're properly spell... doesn't change the joke that Kodai's goon is actually named Goone.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of syrusfan

    syrusfan

    [25]Feb 9, 2011
    • member since: 04/25/07
    • level: 38
    • rank: Squarepants
    • posts: 14,310

    You know you've doomed your child to a life like naming them Goone


    Oh, so it's spelled Meemaw. ...But what does it MEAN?

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111

    [26]Feb 9, 2011
    • member since: 06/27/07
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 9,508

    syrusfan wrote:


    Oh, so it's spelled Meemaw. ...But what does it MEAN?



    Bulapedia actually explains that:


    "Meema" is a pun on "mom" and "ema" (which is Hebrew for "mother"). This is the only time which the gender of either Zorua or Zoroark is referenced in the dub (of course Zorua's gender still isn't said).

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of SPDShadowRanger

    SPDShadowRanger

    [27]Feb 9, 2011
    • member since: 06/13/05
    • level: 72
    • rank: Happy Little Tree
    • posts: 9,110
    Or Me-Ma, child talk, shocking.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of syrusfan

    syrusfan

    [28]Feb 10, 2011
    • member since: 04/25/07
    • level: 38
    • rank: Squarepants
    • posts: 14,310

    Yeah, guess it's just me being nitpicky

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Shiny_missingno

    Shiny_missingno

    [29]Feb 10, 2011
    • member since: 07/12/09
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 1,528

    Fun fact


    The Japanese version Zorua calls Zoroark Maa


    Short for "Nakama", meaning friend


    meaning she isn't his mother in the original version...just someone who cares for him

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111

    [30]Feb 10, 2011
    • member since: 06/27/07
    • level: 27
    • rank: Shark Jumper
    • posts: 9,508

    Shiny_missingno wrote:


    Fun fact


    The Japanese version Zorua calls Zoroark Maa


    Short for "Nakama", meaning friend


    meaning she isn't his mother in the original version...just someone who cares for him



    So Zoroark isn't Zorua's mother? Well if Zoroark takes care of Zorua they might as well have just made Zoroark Zorua's mother, but whatever.

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of syrusfan

    syrusfan

    [31]Feb 10, 2011
    • member since: 04/25/07
    • level: 38
    • rank: Squarepants
    • posts: 14,310

    Well I guess that's why he doesn't call her Mama then

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of thec0mebackman

    thec0mebackman

    [32]Feb 12, 2011
    • member since: 08/22/09
    • level: 15
    • rank: Ginsu Knife
    • posts: 2,181

    seriously SPEECHLESS. hands down my FAVORITE D/P movie, and overall one of my favorite Pokemon movies. it's going on my top 3 list. it was so refreshing finally seeing a movie that didn't involve Palkia and Dialga. i absolutely loved this movie.... it deserves a perfect 10. the movie didn't try so hard like in the previous movies. it wasn't crammed and it flowed just right. the fighting scenes between the Beasts and Zoroark were sickkk. i also really liked the storyline of the movie along with the characters. not one thing annoyed me. what made this movie so memorable was its simplicity. everything else was so eloquently executed, and my goodness- beautiful setting, Pokemon, and the movie held a strong, meaningful message. (i sound so old) loved the relationship between Zorua/Zoroark. also love the idea of Illusion Pokemon. i can go on and on about this movie but i'll stop here..... also realllyyyy loved the ending. when Ash and co were saying bye, along with the background music, nostalgia struck me so hard. Team Rocket in the end wrapped everything up with a perfectly tied bow. Pokemon The Movie 2000 ended with them also, so maybe that's why i loved the ending so much. their dialogue incorporated the undertone of the movie. the whole "enjoy your present" and don't worry about your future theme. "what would you do if you can see into the future" "i'd be bored out of my creative mind" "not knowing about your future is the spice of life....." "eyystop simplifyingmy shtick!"LOL. "feel that breeze" "a day of ease" "life's but a dream" "flowing downstream" LMAO. the most profound and beautiful dialogue i have ever heard TR say. truly a perfect movie. lastly: Crown City is gorgeous. are their cities inspired off of real ones? i would love to visit. ha, only in our dreams....


    edit: ugh, i did the hearts with < and a 3 which made half my post disappear so i had to re-write it all over again. failure ~~

    Edited on 02/12/2011 1:06am
    Edited 2 total times.
    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of Shiny_missingno

    Shiny_missingno

    [33]Feb 17, 2011
    • member since: 07/12/09
    • level: 13
    • rank: Regal Beagle
    • posts: 1,528

    http://bulbanews.bulbagarden.net/wiki/TPCi_not_happy_about_Cartoon_Network_movie_cut


    I'm pretty sure You guy's have read this right?

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.
  • Avatar of syrusfan

    syrusfan

    [34]Feb 17, 2011
    • member since: 04/25/07
    • level: 38
    • rank: Squarepants
    • posts: 14,310

    I really don't understand why they cut it for Adventure Time. Just show the movie in full

    You must be registered and logged in to post a message.