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Possible strategies for Ash to take down Cynthia

  • Avatar of z-agent

    z-agent

    [1]Apr 4, 2009
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    Assembling a good team is one thing, but executing a plan to take down the toughest opponent is another. From my current observations, I would say that Ash should save his trump card Charizard for Garchomp, but he would have to learn an effective move that is both fast and powerful. Dragonclaw could be a good choice as Seismic toss not only takes too long to fully execute, but Garchomp could even lower the damage like Harrison's Blaziken did. Even a flaming Seismic toss wouldn't do the trick. Dragonbreath, Flamethrower and maybe Steelwing would work.

    Pikachu would be a good candidate for Lucario, but Iron Tail wouldn't be very effective. If Pikachu could learn a paralysis move, it would slow Lucario down enough to shock him. However, Pikachu is virtually useless against Garchomp as she's part ground and Quick attack and Iron tail are far too risky to pull off, unless Ash would use him as a "martyr" pokemon where Pikachu takes a bit of a pounding to lower the power of some moves.

    Gastrodon is part rock and part ice so several good candidates could be Sceptile, Heracross, Bayleef, and perhaps Donphan. Bayleef would have to trap Gastrodon with her vines, but first slow him down with sweet scent then razor leaf and slam him around. Sceptile would have to resort to Leaf Blade and Bullet Seed but avoid solar beam unless slowed down enough or has enough health left to take a pounding. Donphan, though weak against Ice has the earthquake move and rollout, but he could also be used against Garchomp with this strategy: When Garchomp digs, Ash could immediately switch and call out Donphan and use EArthquake, and Garchomp is trapped! That plan however, has a slim chance of success.

    For excellent speed, Staraptor is probably the best candidate as he has brave bird and close combat. If not, Swellow is a good substitute as it knows Arial Ace and double team, though the latter is almost useless as Cynthia isn't easily fooled.

    I'm sure there are other good strategies.

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  • Avatar of Aaerni

    Aaerni

    [2]Apr 4, 2009
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    @ the last post: Actually, Gastrodon's type is Water/Ground, not Rock/Ice, so it has a double weakness to Grass. Therefore, it would be good for Ash to use his Sceptile, since Sceptile is Ash's strongest Grass-type. But Ash must still plan a really good strategy.
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  • Avatar of Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111

    [3]Apr 4, 2009
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    Chairzard against Garchomp? Bad matchup, Garchomp is a Dragon/Ground-type, meaning it is 4X resistance to Fire-type moves! The only thing going for Charizard is 1. It is a half Flying-type so it is immune to Ground-type moves and 2. knows a Dragon-type move (Dragon Breathe) which double 2x damage to Garchomp (being it is half Dragon-type).

    Once Bulbapedia is back up I'll post my strategy for Ash to use against Cynthia.

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  • Avatar of z-agent

    z-agent

    [4]Apr 4, 2009
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    well, maybe Garchomp has a 4x resistance to fire type attacks, but if Flamethrower is powerful enough, it could leave a burn. But that won't always work. Not to mention that if Garchomp digs, the burn could be removed. But if the burn is on the wing, it could slow her down and prevent her from flying away. That would mean Charizard's Flamethrower would have to be an all-out attack. Glaie not strong enough even with the tactic used against Clark and his Charizard. Gliscor, I don't know.
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  • Avatar of Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111

    [5]Apr 4, 2009
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    z-agent wrote:
    well, maybe Garchomp has a 4x resistance to fire type attacks, but if Flamethrower is powerful enough, it could leave a burn. But that won't always work. Not to mention that if Garchomp digs, the burn could be removed. But if the burn is on the wing, it could slow her down and prevent her from flying away. That would mean Charizard's Flamethrower would have to be an all-out attack. Glaie not strong enough even with the tactic used against Clark and his Charizard. Gliscor, I don't know.

    Garchomp bairly felt Paul's Torterra's attacks (It was acting like it was hurt by Mega Drain), and all of Torterra's attacks Paul used was Grass attaks which Garchomp receives normal damage from. You think attacks it is resistance from is going to effect it?

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  • Avatar of pikastatic100

    pikastatic100

    [6]Apr 4, 2009
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    Actually, Garchomp has a X2 resistance to Fire-type moves, as Fire-type moves just do normal damage to Ground-types. And like Aaerni said, Gastrodon is a Water/Ground-type, so pitting Donphan against it would be a bad idea. I'm thinking Snorlax could be a pretty good candidate for going against Garchomp. It has Ice Punch, which can do X4 damage to it, and it's offensive and defensive powers are pretty good.
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  • Avatar of z-agent

    z-agent

    [7]Apr 4, 2009
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    Grotle would be off the list since he's slow moving though his attacks make up for it. He could be a good candidate against Gastrodon. We don't know what other pokemon Cynthia has so setup could vary. Snorlax is another good pick do to his high amount of health. One tactic is have Garchomp use giga impact and while Garchomp is resting ice punch would work. Hyper beam could be used as a substitute if that fails, of course it will take time. Torkoal is off the list as Iron defense is definetly no match for the attack Cynthia has. Grass debate would go on and on with Sceptile most likely, but I wouldn't underestimate Bulbasaur or Bayleef. Buizel could be counted in the tally with Aqua jet.
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  • Avatar of z-agent

    z-agent

    [8]Apr 4, 2009
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    Thanks Pikastatic I was thinking that myself of the 2x resistance as Ground isn't a strong defense against fire.
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  • Avatar of BAC510

    BAC510

    [9]Apr 4, 2009
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    z-agent wrote:

    Assembling a good team is one thing, but executing a plan to take down the toughest opponent is another. From my current observations, I would say that Ash should save his trump card Charizard for Garchomp, but he would have to learn an effective move that is both fast and powerful. Dragonclaw could be a good choice as Seismic toss not only takes too long to fully execute, but Garchomp could even lower the damage like Harrison's Blaziken did. Even a flaming Seismic toss wouldn't do the trick. Dragonbreath, Flamethrower and maybe Steelwing would work.

    Pikachu would be a good candidate for Lucario, but Iron Tail wouldn't be very effective. If Pikachu could learn a paralysis move, it would slow Lucario down enough to shock him. However, Pikachu is virtually useless against Garchomp as she's part ground and Quick attack and Iron tail are far too risky to pull off, unless Ash would use him as a "martyr" pokemon where Pikachu takes a bit of a pounding to lower the power of some moves.

    Gastrodon is part rock and part ice so several good candidates could be Sceptile, Heracross, Bayleef, and perhaps Donphan. Bayleef would have to trap Gastrodon with her vines, but first slow him down with sweet scent then razor leaf and slam him around. Sceptile would have to resort to Leaf Blade and Bullet Seed but avoid solar beam unless slowed down enough or has enough health left to take a pounding. Donphan, though weak against Ice has the earthquake move and rollout, but he could also be used against Garchomp with this strategy: When Garchomp digs, Ash could immediately switch and call out Donphan and use EArthquake, and Garchomp is trapped! That plan however, has a slim chance of success.

    For excellent speed, Staraptor is probably the best candidate as he has brave bird and close combat. If not, Swellow is a good substitute as it knows Arial Ace and double team, though the latter is almost useless as Cynthia isn't easily fooled.

    I'm sure there are other good strategies.

    Keep in mind that some moves like Earthquake, won't be shown because of what happened with an Earthquake in Japan. We have NO idea if Ash will even beat the Sinnoh League, so he can challenge the Elite 4. Besides, Ash has to deal with Aaron, Bertha, Flint, and Lucian first to get to Cynthia.

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  • Avatar of z-agent

    z-agent

    [10]Apr 4, 2009
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    Quite right BAC510, not to mention he has to get past Paul as well! So Ash must first use all his Shinnoh pokemon he has (well they still need some more training, then again they all do). But by probabilty, Ash would probably place 2nd or even win based on past results from other leagues, but I might be wrong about that, we shall see.
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  • Avatar of Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111

    [11]Apr 4, 2009
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    BAC510 wrote:
    Keep in mind that some moves like Earthquake, won't be shown because of what happened with an Earthquake in Japan. We have NO idea if Ash will even beat the Sinnoh League, so he can challenge the Elite 4. Besides, Ash has to deal with Aaron, Bertha, Flint, and Lucian first to get to Cynthia.

    Only one episode was cancelled due to an Earthquake because that episode was going to air right after a pretty strong Earthquake happened in Japan. It would have been pretty offensive and hurtful for them to air an episode like that so they decided to cancel it and instead showed Whiscash in another episode.

    However Earthquake can be perfectly fine to use as the Earthquake which happened has long passed.

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  • Avatar of z-agent

    z-agent

    [12]Apr 4, 2009
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    The only problem with the earthquake move is that agile pokemon not mention flyers are quick to get around it. Lucario could be held in one spot, but he can jump pretty high.
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  • Avatar of BradyTheRandom

    BradyTheRandom

    [13]Apr 4, 2009
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    I've said it before, I'll say it again. If Ash uses ALL of his Pokemon from Kanto to Sinnoh in the league, he'll win, no questions asked. If he gets all "I started over so I can only use my new Pokemon," like in Hoenn, no he will not get past the trainers. If Ash DOES choose to use all of his Pokemon in the Sinnoh League, he'll definitely be able to get through part of the Elite Four. To say he'll win is a stretch, but I'm sure he'll at least beat one or two of them.
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  • Avatar of BAC510

    BAC510

    [14]Apr 4, 2009
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    BradyTheRandom wrote:
    I've said it before, I'll say it again. If Ash uses ALL of his Pokemon from Kanto to Sinnoh in the league, he'll win, no questions asked. If he gets all "I started over so I can only use my new Pokemon," like in Hoenn, no he will not get past the trainers. If Ash DOES choose to use all of his Pokemon in the Sinnoh League, he'll definitely be able to get through part of the Elite Four. To say he'll win is a stretch, but I'm sure he'll at least beat one or two of them.

    Ash doesn't have to use his veteran Pokemon to win the Sinnoh League or Elite 4. Since Kanto & Johto have technically the same Elite 4(with a 3 year difference, in the games), no wonder Ash didn't meet any new Elite 4 members because it would conflict with the Timeline bullcrap. So they treated Kanto & Johto the same, which is why they let Ash use some of his Kanto team, along with his Johto team & he still lost.

    Things are starting to look bright for Ash, with a Rival putting Ash to an edge, his Sinnoh Team may be much stronger than you think. Ash's Sinnoh Pokemon may have som stronger qualities than Ash's veteran Pokemon. I am certain Staraptor will be a powerhouse, Ash's Grotle is very powerful, being used to its speed & learning a powerful attack. Chimchar will evolve into Monferno, & we all suspect it will prove itself to Paul in the Sinnoh League, the only difference it was between all of us is that some thought it would stay as a Chimchar, while some thought it would evolve. I have no comment for Buizel, the only Pokemon it can MAYBE take down on Paul's team is Magmar/Magmorter but if it were to evolve, we can suspect that Ash's chances of winning the Sinnoh League will improve.

    There is so much stuff that has happened in Sinnoh(with more stuff on the way), why can't Ash win with JUST his Sinnoh Team.

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    edmasterchaos

    [15]Apr 5, 2009
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    BAC510 wrote:

    BradyTheRandom wrote:
    I've said it before, I'll say it again. If Ash uses ALL of his Pokemon from Kanto to Sinnoh in the league, he'll win, no questions asked. If he gets all "I started over so I can only use my new Pokemon," like in Hoenn, no he will not get past the trainers. If Ash DOES choose to use all of his Pokemon in the Sinnoh League, he'll definitely be able to get through part of the Elite Four. To say he'll win is a stretch, but I'm sure he'll at least beat one or two of them.

    Ash doesn't have to use his veteran Pokemon to win the Sinnoh League or Elite 4. Since Kanto & Johto have technically the same Elite 4(with a 3 year difference, in the games), no wonder Ash didn't meet any new Elite 4 members because it would conflict with the Timeline bullcrap. So they treated Kanto & Johto the same, which is why they let Ash use some of his Kanto team, along with his Johto team & he still lost.

    Things are starting to look bright for Ash, with a Rival putting Ash to an edge, his Sinnoh Team may be much stronger than you think. Ash's Sinnoh Pokemon may have som stronger qualities than Ash's veteran Pokemon. I am certain Staraptor will be a powerhouse, Ash's Grotle is very powerful, being used to its speed & learning a powerful attack. Chimchar will evolve into Monferno, & we all suspect it will prove itself to Paul in the Sinnoh League, the only difference it was between all of us is that some thought it would stay as a Chimchar, while some thought it would evolve. I have no comment for Buizel, the only Pokemon it can MAYBE take down on Paul's team is Magmar/Magmorter but if it were to evolve, we can suspect that Ash's chances of winning the Sinnoh League will improve.

    There is so much stuff that has happened in Sinnoh(with more stuff on the way), why can't Ash win with JUST his Sinnoh Team.

    @Last part:
    Because, Sceptile is stronger and faster than Grotle, his ice pokemon from Hoenn (forgot name) has a larger type coverage, specially in competitive areas, Charizard is by far his strongest fire, and, squirtle too, probably, Snorlax is a beast, and, Heracross is pretty strong compared to other pokemons ash has.


    Against Cynthia, IMO, he needs his ice pokemon, Charizard, Snorlax, Sceptile, Heracross *Cynthia doesn't have fire, right?* and of course, Pikachu.
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  • Avatar of z-agent

    z-agent

    [16]Apr 5, 2009
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    Now that's a good setup, but then again things may change when we get there. The sixth slot is left out so it could be anyone's guess what the final pokemon Ash will use. Charizard definitely fits in with the team, can't see how he will triumph without that dragon. Snorlax of course since he's a "meat shield". Sceptile is a good choice since he's powerful, but it will take a little more than power to take down Cynthia as the last time Ash used just power it was both a blessing and a curse at the same time. Pikachu no doubt will be in his team, but he's useless against Gastrodon and Garchomp since they are both ground types.
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  • Avatar of z-agent

    z-agent

    [17]Apr 5, 2009
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    I was thinking that BAC510, Ash should just use his Shinnoh pokemon for the upcoming league and the E4 and reserve some veteran pokemon for Cynthia. The final six is something I'm anxious to see later on.
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  • Avatar of BradyTheRandom

    BradyTheRandom

    [18]Apr 5, 2009
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    @Edo: Glalie
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  • Avatar of BAC510

    BAC510

    [19]Apr 5, 2009
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    edmasterchaos wrote:
    BAC510 wrote:

    BradyTheRandom wrote:
    I've said it before, I'll say it again. If Ash uses ALL of his Pokemon from Kanto to Sinnoh in the league, he'll win, no questions asked. If he gets all "I started over so I can only use my new Pokemon," like in Hoenn, no he will not get past the trainers. If Ash DOES choose to use all of his Pokemon in the Sinnoh League, he'll definitely be able to get through part of the Elite Four. To say he'll win is a stretch, but I'm sure he'll at least beat one or two of them.

    Ash doesn't have to use his veteran Pokemon to win the Sinnoh League or Elite 4. Since Kanto & Johto have technically the same Elite 4(with a 3 year difference, in the games), no wonder Ash didn't meet any new Elite 4 members because it would conflict with the Timeline bullcrap. So they treated Kanto & Johto the same, which is why they let Ash use some of his Kanto team, along with his Johto team & he still lost.

    Things are starting to look bright for Ash, with a Rival putting Ash to an edge, his Sinnoh Team may be much stronger than you think. Ash's Sinnoh Pokemon may have som stronger qualities than Ash's veteran Pokemon. I am certain Staraptor will be a powerhouse, Ash's Grotle is very powerful, being used to its speed & learning a powerful attack. Chimchar will evolve into Monferno, & we all suspect it will prove itself to Paul in the Sinnoh League, the only difference it was between all of us is that some thought it would stay as a Chimchar, while some thought it would evolve. I have no comment for Buizel, the only Pokemon it can MAYBE take down on Paul's team is Magmar/Magmorter but if it were to evolve, we can suspect that Ash's chances of winning the Sinnoh League will improve.

    There is so much stuff that has happened in Sinnoh(with more stuff on the way), why can't Ash win with JUST his Sinnoh Team.

    @Last part:
    Because, Sceptile is stronger and faster than Grotle, his ice pokemon from Hoenn (forgot name) has a larger type coverage, specially in competitive areas, Charizard is by far his strongest fire, and, squirtle too, probably, Snorlax is a beast, and, Heracross is pretty strong compared to other pokemons ash has.


    Against Cynthia, IMO, he needs his ice pokemon, Charizard, Snorlax, Sceptile, Heracross *Cynthia doesn't have fire, right?* and of course, Pikachu.

    Ash doesn't necessarily need an Ice type, all he needs is a good strategy, even Pikachu can defeat Garchomp, just needs a good tactic, like getting Garhomp tired or let it use Giga Impact & miss. Then strike it with everything it has. It would be a good idea to have an Ice type or a Pokemon with an Ice type move but that doesn't mean it means guaranteed victory for Ash. Paul's Weavile got beat by Garchomp, even though it knew Blizzard.

    Cynthia doesn't have Fire Types but I think Garchomp has Flamethrower? Not sure, I've seen a Garchomp somewhere that used Flamethrower but I think it was in the games though.

    Cynthia's Pokemon-

    Spiritomb: Ash will need a Pokemon with enough endurance to take it down!

    Gastrodon/Togekiss: For Gastrodon, a grass type is a must, though it may not definetely be defeated by a grass type.

    Roserade: Ash's Staraptor seems like a good Candidate.

    Milotic: Pikachu seems like a good match up, since it has beaten quite a few Milotics in the past.

    Lucario: Ash's Monferno both types have an advantage over Lucario, just watch out for Bone Rush.

    Garchomp: It may be a good idea to have an old friend in this battle but NOT Charizard.

    * Ash WILL use only his Sinnoh Team in the S-I-N-N-O-H League & don't be a baby & say "Well how do you know?"

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  • Avatar of Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111

    [20]Apr 5, 2009
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    BAC510 wrote:
    * Ash WILL use only his Sinnoh Team in the S-I-N-N-O-H League & don't be a baby & say "Well how do you know?"

    Yes, for the Sinnoh League he'll most likely only use his Sinnoh Team except maybe if he battles Paul. However in the anime the Elite Four and the Cahmpion don't seem to directly being part of the Sinnoh League. If Ash was to ever have an official battle against the Elite Four and/or the Champion he'll most likely use some of his more experienced Pokemon.

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