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Possible strategies for Ash to take down Cynthia

  • Avatar of BAC510

    BAC510

    [21]Apr 5, 2009
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    Pikachu315111 wrote:

    BAC510 wrote:
    * Ash WILL use only his Sinnoh Team in the S-I-N-N-O-H League & don't be a baby & say "Well how do you know?"

    Yes, for the Sinnoh League he'll most likely only use his Sinnoh Team except maybe if he battles Paul. However in the anime the Elite Four and the Cahmpion don't seem to directly being part of the Sinnoh League. If Ash was to ever have an official battle against the Elite Four and/or the Champion he'll most likely use some of his more experienced Pokemon.

    Definitely Sinnoh Pokemon for Sinnoh League.

    Wonder which Pokemon he may use against the Elite 4? Everyone is screaming Charizard & that seems like the case. Aaron has 4 Pokemon weak to Fire attacks & as for Drapion, a ground type but only Ash's Chimchar knows a ground type move: Dig, not saying there will be anymore Ground type moves learned but now there is one. We just have to see how the Sinnoh League turns out.

    Can't the Elite 4 not challenge but I guess "Invite" a trainer to fight them, even though they didn't win the Sinnoh League?

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    lighting_blond

    [22]Apr 5, 2009
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    I agree on that.
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  • Avatar of z-agent

    z-agent

    [23]Apr 5, 2009
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    Thanks! I completley forgot about those! Charizard still seems like the final figher against Garchomp. For Spiritomb, Noctowl and Snorlax can't do the job Powerful Special attacks are essential. Milotic Will either be Pikachu or any grass type. Togekiss has a nightmare for Heracross, and for Roserade definetely between Charizard or Staraptor, but be careful! Type advantage is not always a wise choice.
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    edmasterchaos

    [24]Apr 5, 2009
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    BAC510 wrote:
    edmasterchaos wrote:
    BAC510 wrote:

    BradyTheRandom wrote:
    I've said it before, I'll say it again. If Ash uses ALL of his Pokemon from Kanto to Sinnoh in the league, he'll win, no questions asked. If he gets all "I started over so I can only use my new Pokemon," like in Hoenn, no he will not get past the trainers. If Ash DOES choose to use all of his Pokemon in the Sinnoh League, he'll definitely be able to get through part of the Elite Four. To say he'll win is a stretch, but I'm sure he'll at least beat one or two of them.

    Ash doesn't have to use his veteran Pokemon to win the Sinnoh League or Elite 4. Since Kanto & Johto have technically the same Elite 4(with a 3 year difference, in the games), no wonder Ash didn't meet any new Elite 4 members because it would conflict with the Timeline bullcrap. So they treated Kanto & Johto the same, which is why they let Ash use some of his Kanto team, along with his Johto team & he still lost.

    Things are starting to look bright for Ash, with a Rival putting Ash to an edge, his Sinnoh Team may be much stronger than you think. Ash's Sinnoh Pokemon may have som stronger qualities than Ash's veteran Pokemon. I am certain Staraptor will be a powerhouse, Ash's Grotle is very powerful, being used to its speed & learning a powerful attack. Chimchar will evolve into Monferno, & we all suspect it will prove itself to Paul in the Sinnoh League, the only difference it was between all of us is that some thought it would stay as a Chimchar, while some thought it would evolve. I have no comment for Buizel, the only Pokemon it can MAYBE take down on Paul's team is Magmar/Magmorter but if it were to evolve, we can suspect that Ash's chances of winning the Sinnoh League will improve.

    There is so much stuff that has happened in Sinnoh(with more stuff on the way), why can't Ash win with JUST his Sinnoh Team.
    @Last part:
    Because, Sceptile is stronger and faster than Grotle, his ice pokemon from Hoenn (forgot name) has a larger type coverage, specially in competitive areas, Charizard is by far his strongest fire, and, squirtle too, probably, Snorlax is a beast, and, Heracross is pretty strong compared to other pokemons ash has.


    Against Cynthia, IMO, he needs his ice pokemon, Charizard, Snorlax, Sceptile, Heracross *Cynthia doesn't have fire, right?* and of course, Pikachu.

    Ash doesn't necessarily need an Ice type, all he needs is a good strategy, even Pikachu can defeat Garchomp, just needs a good tactic, like getting Garhomp tired or let it use Giga Impact & miss. Then strike it with everything it has. It would be a good idea to have an Ice type or a Pokemon with an Ice type move but that doesn't mean it means guaranteed victory for Ash. Paul's Weavile got beat by Garchomp, even though it knew Blizzard.

    Cynthia doesn't have Fire Types but I think Garchomp has Flamethrower? Not sure, I've seen a Garchomp somewhere that used Flamethrower but I think it was in the games though.

    Cynthia's Pokemon-

    Spiritomb: Ash will need a Pokemon with enough endurance to take it down!

    Gastrodon/Togekiss: For Gastrodon, a grass type is a must, though it may not definetely be defeated by a grass type.

    Roserade: Ash's Staraptor seems like a good Candidate.

    Milotic: Pikachu seems like a good match up, since it has beaten quite a few Milotics in the past.

    Lucario: Ash's Monferno both types have an advantage over Lucario, just watch out for Bone Rush.

    Garchomp: It may be a good idea to have an old friend in this battle but NOT Charizard.

    * Ash WILL use only his Sinnoh Team in the S-I-N-N-O-H League & don't be a baby & say "Well how do you know?"

    @Pikachu beating Garchomp: God, i hope not.
    It's Dragon and Ground, electric attacks should never do any damage to it, that would just be way too much over the top >.>


    If those are the pokemon, then, the team i mentioned would indeed be a good strategy, with 2 changes
    Charizard: could beat/weaken Roserade and Lucario.
    Pikachu: take down Milotic
    Glalie: Weaken/beat Roserade, Gastrodon/Togekiss and Milotic
    Sceptile: take down/weaken Milotic and Gastrodon
    Squirtle: For gastrodon, to be equal against Garchomp and Spiritomb
    Muk: for roserade, gastrodon and garchomp, if ground is weak against poison, but maily for Spiritomb, seeing how no pokemon has super against it, and Muk is his strongest pokemon who could fight him off. (since heracross and snorlax are weak against his ghost/dark)


    Still, that would be the 'smart' choice, the writters will mess around with logics and make the most intersting fight they can think of.
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  • Avatar of z-agent

    z-agent

    [27]Apr 5, 2009
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    Strength is one important factor is selecting pokemon and executing a strategy. Charizard, the powerhouse of Ash has powerful fire, Dragon, and physical attacks with some trap moves as well. He's one, but he fights like three. Sceptile has a lot of good grass moves and can fight like two. Craftiness is another good factor as Bayleef is one good example. She can use her vines to jump high, not to mention subdue and slam around rendering the victim little time to think or escape. She too fights like two pokemon. Squirtle of course has the ability to see through smoke from all that fire-fighting and his shell not only is a good defense, but has the ability to roll away from tight situations.
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  • Avatar of BradyTheRandom

    BradyTheRandom

    [28]Apr 5, 2009
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    Whoa there, just edit all of that into one post so you don't have to triple post, then delete the others.
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  • Avatar of z-agent

    z-agent

    [29]Apr 6, 2009
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    To avoid a bit of confusion, let me assemble a list of who would not make the final team of six for this battle:

    Cyndaquil: too weak and laid back

    Totodile: sometimes hard to control and only knows average moves

    Muk: Since Cynthia is using ground types, he wouldn't last more than a minute

    Glalie: Ice types may be strong on ground and dragon types, but Glalie is not strong enough

    Corphish: may have powerful water moves, but can't take rock smash

    Torkoal: powerful Iron Defense, but Cynthia knows how to get around defense moves despite the overheat move.

    Noctowl:Against Spiritomb would be suicide as the Foresight needs to fully work for both physical and special attacks to work and Noctowl isn't very strong even with the confusion attack

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  • Avatar of Jinto11

    Jinto11

    [30]Apr 6, 2009
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    no offense to everyone talking in this forum topic but ash has no strategy he doesnt think he uses brute strength in the most recent episode he was just firing attacks at each other and the only battle method that he does is a lame jump that he stole from Dawn who is a first time adventuring out of the house and isnt even a trainer she's a coordinator i dont know why they made that doesnt make the show any better more focused on beauty contest than battle.
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  • Avatar of z-agent

    z-agent

    [31]Apr 6, 2009
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    I recall Ash thinking a lot rather than use brute force. Like, Ash was able to defeat Flannery's Torkoal with Corphish's crabhammer when he realized that attacking the sides instead of dead-on would not work. Sometimes Ash uses unorthodox tactics like having Charizard heat the rock field which turned to magma and gradually drained Gary's Blastoise's health then Seismic Toss. And don't forget Ash's rematch with Whitney, where he had Cyndaquil tire out Miltank (even when in a rollout move, HP still gets drained), then Totodile dig the trenches to get Miltank off balance, and have Pikachu take care of the rest.
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    pikastatic100

    [32]Apr 7, 2009
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    Jinto11 wrote:
    no offense to everyone talking in this forum topic but ash has no strategy he doesnt think he uses brute strength in the most recent episode he was just firing attacks at each other and the only battle method that he does is a lame jump that he stole from Dawn who is a first time adventuring out of the house and isnt even a trainer she's a coordinator i dont know why they made that doesnt make the show any better more focused on beauty contest than battle.

    First of all, Ash may not be the smartest trainer on the block, but he does use strategy, even if it's not all the time. The reason he had Dawn's Pokemon and the rest of his Pokemon fire attacks at Pikachu, Chimchar, and Buizel was to toughen them up, as well as himself.

    Second of all, the "lame jump" as you put it is a spinning technique that can be quite effective, and it helped Ash win against Roark. It also helped him in other battles that I can't think of right off the bat.

    Third of all, Dawn may have been a beginner back then, but she still learned a lot about Pokemon over the years before she started her journey. Just because someone's a beginner doesn't mean they're completely incapable of coming up with effective techniques. And after 100 episodes and three Contest Ribbons won, she's definitely not a beginner anymore.

    Forth of all, everyone who trains Pokemon are trainers, and that includes Dawn. She may be a coordinator, but she trains her Pokemon, thus, making her a trainer.

    And finally, Pokemon Contests don't revolve around beauty; they have to do with showing off your Pokemon in the best way you can, but it doesn't specifically have to be beautiful. Also, Contests have battles, too.

    Anyway, If Ash trained hard enough and used the right Pokemon, and since he does use strategy, especially before and during major battles, he could beat Cynthia.
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  • Avatar of z-agent

    z-agent

    [33]Apr 7, 2009
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    He should save the veterans like Charizard, (insert best Grass type to be revealed), Squirtle, Snorlax, Staraptor (or Swellow), and some other for Cynthia since it will take everything that involves a solid professional team and strategy such as strength, speed, endurance, defense, and craftiness. But for now, Ash should probably just build up the strengths of his current team, particularily Chimchar, if he's still unevolved or a little bit weak, and he goes up against Torterra, he could get nearly mopped in about a few seconds, but then again I wouldn't underestimate Chimchar. Everyone else knows all the right moves, they just need a little more training and Ash might just actually win the tournament. I wouldn't also mind having an "old rival reunion" which was all the friends that Ash faced and lost to enter the tournament and they all lose to Paul leaving the final round all to Ash vs Paul. Now that would be something!
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  • Avatar of BAC510

    BAC510

    [34]Apr 7, 2009
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    z-agent wrote:
    He should save the veterans like Charizard, (insert best Grass type to be revealed), Squirtle, Snorlax, Staraptor (or Swellow), and some other for Cynthia since it will take everything that involves a solid professional team and strategy such as strength, speed, endurance, defense, and craftiness. But for now, Ash should probably just build up the strengths of his current team, particularily Chimchar, if he's still unevolved or a little bit weak, and he goes up against Torterra, he could get nearly mopped in about a few seconds, but then again I wouldn't underestimate Chimchar. Everyone else knows all the right moves, they just need a little more training and Ash might just actually win the tournament. I wouldn't also mind having an "old rival reunion" which was all the friends that Ash faced and lost to enter the tournament and they all lose to Paul leaving the final round all to Ash vs Paul. Now that would be something!

    I am tired of seeing that Charizard. Every major battle it's in, it uses Seismic Toss as the finisher: Blaine's Magmar, Gary's Blastoise, Harrison's Blaziken(though he still lost), Noland's Articuno, and lastly as sad attempt on Brandon's Dusclop's & by now dumb Ash should know about Fighting Type attacks not affecting Ghost types.

    Like I said before, we need to find out if Ash beats the Sinnoh League & beat 4 Members of the Elite 4 first to get to Cynthia. You guys make it seem like he is on his way to battle her & we are in what, going to Ash's 7th Gym battle.

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  • Avatar of z-agent

    z-agent

    [35]Apr 7, 2009
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    So what? You'll see Charizard, no matter what, but this time he's probably learned a new finishing move; Dragonclaw seems like the best bet. Anyway, I have a feeling Chimchar would evolve sooner or later. I can sense it coming. With any luck, Ash would have a fully evolved (except for Pikachu) Shinnoh team. Additionally, since this discussion is all about any and all possible ways Ash can defeat Cynthia, back to the strategies: One of the most important tactics is keeping the distance away from the opponent, as those melee attacks are pretty nasty. Cynthia's pokemon get too close, a trap or status changing move would work. For example, Staraptor should use brave bird to escape or use close combat. Grotle, now knows the rock climb which could increase Ash's chance of success, though results will vary if the attack hits and the effects work. Snorlax could take the Giga impact and then hammer Garchomp away with either ice punch or even a body slam (the paralyzing affect could be beneficial, though Cynthia knows how to get around weaknesses).
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    pikastatic100

    [36]Apr 8, 2009
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    z-agent wrote:
    So what? You'll see Charizard, no matter what, but this time he's probably learned a new finishing move; Dragonclaw seems like the best bet. Anyway, I have a feeling Chimchar would evolve sooner or later. I can sense it coming. With any luck, Ash would have a fully evolved (except for Pikachu) Shinnoh team. Additionally, since this discussion is all about any and all possible ways Ash can defeat Cynthia, back to the strategies: One of the most important tactics is keeping the distance away from the opponent, as those melee attacks are pretty nasty. Cynthia's pokemon get too close, a trap or status changing move would work. For example, Staraptor should use brave bird to escape or use close combat. Grotle, now knows the rock climb which could increase Ash's chance of success, though results will vary if the attack hits and the effects work. Snorlax could take the Giga impact and then hammer Garchomp away with either ice punch or even a body slam (the paralyzing affect could be beneficial, though Cynthia knows how to get around weaknesses).

    There should really be a spoiler warning in the title of this thread, since we're mentioning things that have already happened in the sub (Japanese version), but not yet in the dub.


    ***SPOILER***
    I know that Charizard has helped Ash a lot in past major battles, but I'm really getting tired seeing it in every one; it just gets boring after a while, whether it learns a new move every time or not. Though I suppose you're right, if Ash does go up against Cynthia, he'll probably be using it, anyway. Anyway, I'm thinking Sceptile would be perfect for going up against Gastrodon, seeing that it's powerful Grass-type moves will cause X4 damage to it. It's possible that Gastrodon knows Ice Beam like in the D & P games, but with Sceptile's speed, it should be able to dodge them fairly easily.
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    z-agent

    [37]Apr 8, 2009
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    I can definetley see Sceptile up against Gastrodon, that solarbeam will surely take him down, though I wonder if solarbeam can be charging up while Sceptile moves around, cause those Ice moves could be fatal to Sceptile. Don't forget that her Gastrodon also knows Mud bomb which lowers accuracy. For Togekiss, It either be Pikachu, Heracross, or Staraptor. What Ash needs to know is use light warriors for speed and craftiness and the heavy artillery for the last and toughest opponents.
    Edited on 04/08/2009 6:12am
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    pikastatic100

    [38]Apr 8, 2009
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    z-agent wrote:
    I can definetley see Sceptile up against Gastrodon, that solarbeam will surely take him down, though I wonder if solarbeam can be charging up while Sceptile moves around, cause those Ice moves could be fatal to Sceptile. Don't forget that her Gastrodon also knows Mud bomb which lowers accuracy. For Togekiss, It either be Pikachu, Heracross, or Staraptor. What Ash needs to know is use light warriors for speed and craftiness and the heavy artillery for the last and toughest opponents.

    Togekiss replaces Gastrodon in Platinum, so I doubt that she even has one considering that we've already seen that she has Gastrodon. And even if she did, pitting Heracross against it would be suicide considering that it's X4 weak against Flying-type moves.

    Mud Bomb does lower accuracy, but it sounds like you're thinking more in terms of the games; don't forget that the way things are done in the anime is usually much different from the games. Also, Mud Bomb is a Ground-type move, so it wouldn't effect Sceptile that much. And even if Sceptile wouldn't get a chance to charge up Solarbeam, it still has Leaf Blade which can do significant damage.
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    z-agent

    [39]Apr 8, 2009
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    then in that case, I doubt too whether or not Cynthia will also have a Lucario, Milotic, or a Roserade. If she shows up again sometime later, let's hope she reveals more pokemon than just Gastrodon and Garchomp. Bear in mind that the setup we were all thinking of in our own minds might be changed when the time comes.
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    z-agent

    [40]Apr 13, 2009
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    I'm thinking of the final team setup like this:

    Pikachu: Good to start things off but not to finish as All his electricity is useless and Iron Tail and Quick Attack is just asking for trouble.

    Charizard: The definitive final contender for Garchomp as he has both high power and speed and some attacks to stop Garchomp, he just needs a better melee move than Seismic toss, like a Dragonclaw.

    (any grass type) They are all good ones, so don't say any of them are weak, but he DOES need a grass type, don't think Ash will get past that Gastrodon without one.

    Staraptor: Excellent Speed and the close combat move makes him a good bet though it is wiser to stay as far away from the opponent as possible.

    Snorlax: He may be the slowest, but his high HP makes his a good "meat shield" Buizel: I can't really say if he's the most powerful water type of Ash's, but that Aqua Jet and Water Pulse are something to take advantage of. Aqua Jet not only powerful, but a good evasive move as well with a little shield as well (not good for electric attacks).
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