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Episode Discussion: The Semi-Final Frontier!

  • Avatar of Shiny_missingno

    Shiny_missingno

    [1]Jan 22, 2011
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    This pic pretty much sums up the entire episode


    Ash lost, like we didn't see that coming...cool battle though

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  • Avatar of EddyBob15

    EddyBob15

    [2]Jan 22, 2011
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    This episode was hard to watch. I had a feeling it would go down this way thanks to a certain person saying something. You know, it's bad enough to have Ash lose, but to have it be a Curb Stomping Battle just adds insult to injury.

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  • Avatar of edmasterchaos

    edmasterchaos

    [3]Jan 22, 2011
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    Ah an Uber Team if only Ash had a Magikarp. Anyway, well, it's a better way to keep him from being a champion than losing to the guy he just met in the tournament, certainly a guy who is clearly more powerful and has been built up to being so strong that nobody in the league had knocked his Darkai proves to be a better victor since you can throw in all of Ash's skills and it's still easy to see why he lost.
    Liked it.


    EddyBob15 wrote:
    This episode was hard to watch. I had a feeling it would go down this way thanks to a certain person saying something. You know, it's bad enough to have Ash lose, but to have it be a Curb Stomping Battle just adds insult to injury.
    I wouldn't say it was Curb Stomp Battle though, Ash gave a lot of fight and managed to K.O. two of the legendaries.

    Edited on 01/22/2011 8:43am
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  • Avatar of honorableninja

    honorableninja

    [4]Jan 22, 2011
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    well secpitle can now takes it place in ash's poke hall of fame alongside charizard and pikachu for defeating a legendary granted it was weakened from all the other battles but secptile has earn a place in the pokemon hall of fame.

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  • Avatar of ffmotorsports51

    ffmotorsports51

    [5]Jan 22, 2011
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    Ash was scripted to lose to I knew he was not going to win. I saw it in in the episode guide online. If I battled Tobias, I would beat him with my legedary Pokemon.

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    Aaerni

    [6]Jan 22, 2011
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    Awesome episode and battle, despite the fact that Ash lost. Even though Ash lost the battle, he still managed to knock out two Legendary Pokemon, and he accomplished what no other trainer had ever accomplished before by knocking out not only Tobias's Darkrai but his Latios as well. Prior to Ash, no trainer had ever managed to knock out a single one of Tobias's Pokemon. Plus, Ash ended up finishing in the Top 4 of the Sinnoh League, which is better than he did in the Kanto, Johto, or Hoenn Leagues. (As you'll remember if you've been following the series, Ash finished in the Top 16 in the Kanto League and in the Top 8 in both the Johto and Hoenn Leagues). So I'm not too upset that Ash lost the battle.

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  • Avatar of lighting_blond

    lighting_blond

    [7]Jan 22, 2011
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    Agreed. It was an awesome episode.

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  • Avatar of edmasterchaos

    edmasterchaos

    [8]Jan 22, 2011
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    Also, Trollatios is winlatios.
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  • Avatar of crzyazn_9399

    crzyazn_9399

    [9]Jan 22, 2011
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    Shiny_missingno wrote:



    This pic pretty much sums up the entire episode


    Ash lost, like we didn't see that coming...cool battle though



    Haha. This pic just made my day. Thanks Shiny_missingno.


    Good episode, and also I think the dub kept every single piece of original BGM (I'm a nerd for that kinda stuff). :p So there's some bonus points. Oh, and Brock, did it take you this long to ask yourself what path you're gonna take? Lol, because we've been asking that for about 4 years now.


    Anyway, it was a great episode, and receives an 8.5!

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  • Avatar of PsyduckRanger

    PsyduckRanger

    [10]Jan 22, 2011
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    I'm glad Brock mentioned Ash's League track record, considering his last League loss was almost five years ago...



    ***SPOILER***


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  • Avatar of BAC510

    BAC510

    [11]Jan 22, 2011
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    I really enjoyed the episode.... I know I've been a prick because of how I hated the background music used so far in the Sinnoh League but TCPi knew the awesomeness of this episode so they kept.... ALL the Japanese BGM's intact. Aside from Team Rocket's rhyming.... this episode was great and will probably be the only Dub episode I'd rewatch over & over again.

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  • Avatar of thec0mebackman

    thec0mebackman

    [12]Jan 22, 2011
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    i just finished watching. OMFG. defeat after defeat I was getting really irritated with Tobias. I know anime has no rules against Legendaries, but that was so totally unfair! the whole time I was thinking UGH..... ASH HAD TO WIN. it felt like watching a Laker game. I was on the edge of my seat! Sceptile was so freaking bada$$. one of my new faves from Ash. when Darkrai was defeated I was all happy, aaand then it totally hit me Tobias still had 5 other Poke left, ugh-.- when Tobias brought out Latios, I GOT EVEN MORE PISSED. i mean COME ON are you f*cking kidding me?! (sorry I'm still mad about Ash's defeat) but having Legendaries in the League should not be allowed. it upsets me even more that Ash didn't use Charizard or any other powerhouse-type pokemon. I loved Swellow's & Latios' battle cries, intense! I also knew Ash was going to use Pikachu last, which I loved. his game face along with Pikachu's brought back nostalgia. the battle between Pikachu & Latios was definitely one of the best battles I've ever seen. reminded me of Dragonite vs Pikachu. confession time: when Pikachu kept using Thunderbolt mid-air on Latios, I began to get a little emotional. when Latios flew back down & Pikachu was free-falling from the sky, I got teary-eyed. (didn't expect that!) when Pikachu started using Volt Tackle & went through the Luster Purge, the tears reacted again. finally when Ash yelled out NOWWWW USE IRON TAIL & Pikachu's determination prevailed, my tears blinded my eyes. after seeing Pikachu defeated alongside Latios, I was a waterfall. damn straight I feel like a man for admitting this. LOL
    I was happy Pikachu beat Latios but also upset Pikachu/Ash lost. I was reallyyyy expecting Ash to win the League. but after Torkoal got eliminated, I knew Ash would lose. he better win the Unova League. what Brock said in the end seemed like a foreshadow. I'm expecting more tears in the last 2 episodes.
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  • Avatar of Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111

    [13]Jan 22, 2011
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    With Ash vs. Paul out of the way, a new battle we have been waiting for has come, Ash vs. Tobias, trainer of Darkrai. There really isn't anything need to be said about Darkrai, they built up to it really nicely to being a complete monster of a powerhouse. Unlike Pokemon like Drapion which for some reason the anime consider to be a tough Pokemon, a Legendary does deserve to be a tough as they show Darkrai to be. While I don't stand anywhere on the whole "They shouldn't be using Legendaries in the Pokemon League!" debate, what I find bothersome about it is that they never explain how Tobias got his Darkrai (or any of his other Legendary Pokemon for that matter), I wouldn't have minded the use of Legendary Pokemon is they had explained that. Speaking of Tobias's other Pokemon, I'm sure we all know about the three main thoughts of why they would be: 1. Weak com mons as Darkrai is his only strong Pokemon, 2. His entire team is made up of Legendary Pokemon, and 3. The rest of his Pokemon are the stronger evolution of the com mons, specifically types which are strong against Darkrai in an attempt to at least explain how he battled it (I mean, Tobias did catch it in a normal red and white Pokeball, though that could just be due to the anime's lack of Pokeball variety). I told you what I originally thought in the comments, but as it turned out theory 2 was correct and we have Latios, a Pokemon I very much have a problem with because, unlike Darkrai, there was NO build up whatsoever and just makes Tobias look cheap (which is bad of Tobais's character as most of those who went with theory 2 are people who hate Tobias for using Darkrai, thus making them even more haters). However I have to say the the best battle was the Pikachu vs. Latios battle. I only wished that they had Pikachu, like, try to stay in the battle at least until Tobias threw in his third Pokemon before it fainted from exhaustion (or maybe if it's another Legendary Pokemon have Ash forfeit seeing that Pikachu had been WAY to hurt from the Latios battle to even attempt to battle another Legendary (though Pikachu trying to do so for Ash)). Anyway this is a GREAT episode, even if Ash lost, and everything else I have to say are in my comments:


    Taking On A Nightmare Of A Pokemon:
    1:02 - DARN IT DAWN YOU ALREADY SCANNED A DARKRAI IN EP104 "Sleepless In Pre-Battle!"! And why does Dawn sound like this is the first time she saw a Darkrai? She've seen two (yes, the movies are canon) before!
    1:12 - You're just now noticing this Meowth? I would think a trainer with a Legendary Pokemon would be the talk of the Sinnoh League.
    1:35 - Ooh, Heracross, Ash is using his head. And Brock, Heracross is half Fighting-type, meaning Heracross is both the types Darkrai is weak against. Also being part Fighting-type meaning Heracross is resistant to Dark-type attacks.
    1:53 - Heracross learned Hyper Beam? Cool, but it would have been better to use Mega Horn or Focus Punch. And why does Darkrai know Ice Beam, it's not like any of its weaknesses are weak to Ice-types...
    2:06 - There you go, Mega Hor... oh boy, here we go, Dark Void. Oh, right, Heracross knows Sleep Talk... though we all know something else is suppose to be happening...
    2:40 - Wow, Heracross got a Mega Horn in! Wait, Dream Eater? Oh this is going to hurt Heracross... and I was right, Heracross is out. Though I was expecting Darkrai's Ability Bad Dreams to activate.
    3:56 - GAH!... Well, it was at least nice seeing Torkoal be able to do one move...
    4:48 - Well that's another hit against Darkrai, though an Ice Beam on Gible would be a really, REALLY bad thing!
    5:09 - DARKRAI DODGED ALL OF DRACO METEOR!? And of course, one Dark Pulse knocks out Gible, though I'm going to assume any attack from Darkrai is going to OHKO...
    5:32 - Not to mention all the Gym Leaders and previous trainers he fought in the Sinnoh League.
    5:46 - What are you talking about Jessie? During Ash's battle with Paul you were rooting for Ash just as much as James and Meowth were!
    6:57 - And once again if Ice Beam hits it'll be very damag... it'll OHKO Sceptile more then any other of Darkrai attacks! Is it just bad luck that two of Ash's Pokemon are weak to Ice-type and put up against a Darkrai with Ice Beam?
    7:08 - Darkrai used Withdraw! Seriously, it might as well have seeing how far its face went into its red crest. And Sceptile got hit with Ice Beam... Oh, it's okay! Oh no Dark Void...
    7:59 - Huh? Are we in Sceptile's dream? I guess we'll finally see what happens in a Pokemon's head when Dream Eater is used on them.
    8:16 - HUH? What happened? Are we suppose to guess that Sceptile woke up before Dream Eater took effect? How does eating a Pokemon's dream exactly hurt it again? Well whatever Sceptile is up and gives Darkrai a few more hits!...
    8:35 - DARKRAI'S BEEN DEFEATED! Well I guess this makes Sceptile Ash's third Pokemon to have taken down a Legendary, first Charizard with an Articuno, Pikachu second with a Regice, and now Sceptile with a Darkrai.


    Battling Until The Giant Explosion Clears:
    8:53 - Right Brock, now let's see how strong Tobias really is. Above I stated what assumptions everyone had of Tobias's other Pokemon, personally I'm going to guess he just has powerful normal Pokemon, specifically Fighting- and Bug-types to possibly hint how he at least battled Darkrai.
    9:23 - LATIOS!? HE HAS ANOTHER LEGENDARY POKEMON!?!? WHAT IS HIS ENTIRE TEAM MADE UP OF LEGENDARY POKEMON!?!?!? Though Latios is a bit of a show off... though I guess it could be because it probably doesn't get out often to battle because of Darkrai.
    9:47 - Even Brock can't believe he has another Legendary Pokemon! And Barry, did you just not see Latios speed like a jet across the sky? Plus Latios is half Dragon-type meaning it's resistant to Grass-type attacks.
    0:03 - Well, at least Sceptile has beating Darkrai under its leafs of accomplishments.
    0:27 - Now while it's nice Ash using a variety of his older Pokemon, especially after the Pual battle where he used his Sinnoh team, what exactly were Ash's reasons of picking the Pokemon he's using?
    0:32 - Um, what was that about? Swellow and Latios just began roaring at each other.
    1:07 - And here's Latios's signature move, Luster Purge. And like with Darkrai before, one move knocks Swellow out.
    1:49 - Um yay, Ash can come back with only one Pokemon left against a guy who's using Legendary Pokemon and has 5 Pokemon remaining. Only way Ash could win if he knocks out Latios and the rest of Tobias's Pokemon are weak com mons, which I doubt they are.
    2:13 - And to add even more problems, Pikachu is Ash's last Pokemon and, once again being part Dragon-type, Latios is resistant to Electric-type attacks...
    3:12 - Now I didn't point it out with Heracross's Hyper Beam before, but why aren't any of these Pokemon needing a rest after using Hyper Beam or Giga Impact?
    3:52 - Of course, the old "get on its back" technique, now Pikachu can safely shock Latios, if it can hang on.
    4:06 - No it won't Brock, half Dragon-type remember?
    4:22 - Well there goes Pikachu just shocking Latios to defeat... and Latios got Pikachu off high in the sky!
    5:23 - It Pikachu using Volt Tackle to RUN THROUGH Luster Purge? So... is Volt Tackle like Thunder Armor? Either way an Iron Tail just made things go critical!
    5:42 - Geez, the explosion was so power it caused the stadium's screen to malfunction, not even Infernape's Blaze explosion did that!
    6:05 - A double knock-out, I don't know if this means Pikachu can add Latios to the list of Legendary Pokemon it defeated. But with no Pokemon left, a double knock-out still means Ash lost.


    Final Thoughts Of The League:
    7:00 - Brock is right, Ash finally broke his way to the top 4. Maybe next region Ash can get to the finals, lose, and the region after finally become a Champion!... Yay, and Tepigs are going to become half Flying-types, oh, wait, we're not suppose to know about that Pokemon yet...
    7:13 - Oh Team Rocket, I was wondering why they had a group of people looking at them funny.
    7:26 - WHAT! Are you telling me that the trainer Tobias faced in the finals couldn't take down Darkrai while Ash, the trainer Tobias just defeated, took down TWO of his LEGENDARY Pokemon! That's just adding insult to Ash's Pokemons injuries!
    7:39 - At least Tobias went on and became Champion unlike the other trainers which defeated Ash in previous leagues.
    9:13 - Hmm, what's this? Brock is questioning his goals? Hmm, well he has been travelling with Ash for a long time to become a Pokemon Breeder, and while he does have a lot to show unfortunetly there really isn't any way to show that off.
    9:27 - So Barry just taunted Ash just to run away? They aren't going to battle, they didn't get to do so in the Sinnoh League and I would think Barry would want to try to defeat the trainer who knocked out a few Legendaries.

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  • Avatar of PsyduckRanger

    PsyduckRanger

    [14]Jan 23, 2011
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    I liked Tobias. I don't know why but I rather had a picture of him built up as a git. Maybe because of his look, how mysterious he's been, even the fact he managed to capture legendaries. But of course, it makes perfect sense that he's decent, it would have been incredibly unsatisfying if Ash wasn't beaten by a nice guy.


    Ash's Pokémon choices were ridiculous. Most of them I can accept...but Gible? He should NOT have put Gible in this battle. Kingler, Muk, Snorlax, Donphan...they'd have all made better picks for this than Gible, Torkoal, and probably even Swellow.


    Not to mention poor Glalie, who trained but never got to battle...I miss a lot of Ash's lesser used Pokémon.

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    pikastatic100

    [15]Jan 23, 2011
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    PsyduckRanger wrote:
    Ash's Pokémon choices were ridiculous. Most of them I can accept...but Gible? He should NOT have put Gible in this battle. Kingler, Muk, Snorlax, Donphan...they'd have all made better picks for this than Gible, Torkoal, and probably even Swellow.

    I agree that Ash's choices of Pokemon were pretty poor, with the exception of Pikachu, Sceptile, and Heracross. Still, this battle was great, and the final match-up between Pikachu and Latios I thought was a battle to go in the books... incredibly emotional, intense, and an epic final explosive collision of moves.

    I'm glad that Pikachu went down with Latios. Unless it could've fought on further with Tobias' third Pokemon without getting knocked out easily, it would have been a lame finish to the battle compared with the double knockout that took place. Seeing Tobias' third Pokemon would not have been worth it IMO (besides, it probably would have just been another legendary to get people even more riled up anyway).

    Edited on 01/23/2011 5:17am
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    SPDShadowRanger

    [16]Jan 23, 2011
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    Thank God for haven. Stupid Youtube and their Charizard. Even if it was one sided, it's still a good battle. Sceptile, Heracross, Pikachu were good choices, Swellow was ok, and Gible and Torkoal.....ugh.

    I knew the line-up, but I still wish it would have been Pikachu, Sceptile, Heracross, Glalie, Infernape, and Snorlax.
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    dman_dustin

    [17]Jan 23, 2011
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    Pikachu315111 wrote:


    7:39 - At least Tobias went on and became Champion unlike the other trainers which defeated Ash in previous leagues.




    Tyson beat the Hoenn League, so Tobias isn't the first person. But I do like how even though Ash was Top 4, because of what he managed to do against Tobias, he was second strongest trainer.

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  • Avatar of EddyBob15

    EddyBob15

    [18]Jan 24, 2011
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    You know, considering that Ash knew he'd be going up against Darkrai, you'd think he would've assembled a team of his strongest Pokemon. Pikachu and Sceptile were clever choices, but the others should've been just as powerful. He have any real intelligence, he would've used the Pokemon who scored him his win against his long-time Sinnoh rival. After all, I'd imagine even Darkrai and Latios would've been hard pressed against that kind of power. What, did Infernape need rest after that last battle?

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    NagisaFurukawa

    [19]Jan 24, 2011
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    makes me wonder what Tobias other 4 pokemon are
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  • Avatar of Pikachu315111

    Pikachu315111

    [20]Jan 24, 2011
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    NagisaFurukawa wrote:
    makes me wonder what Tobias other 4 pokemon are


    If they are Legendary, then in my opinion they can only be these Legendary:


    Articuno | Zapdos | Moltres | Mew
    http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/7/7b/Spr_5b_144.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/8/8a/Spr_5b_145.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/d/d3/Spr_5b_146.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/4/43/Spr_5b_151.png
    Raikou | Entei | Suicune | Lugia | Ho-Oh
    http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/b/b0/Spr_5b_243.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/e/e8/Spr_5b_244.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/6/6a/Spr_5b_245.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/a/a8/Spr_5b_249.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/0/0a/Spr_5b_250.png
    Regirock | Regice | Registeel | Latias | Deoxys
    http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/7/7f/Spr_5b_377.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/3/3b/Spr_5b_378.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/7/73/Spr_5b_379.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/f/f8/Spr_5b_380.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/b/be/Spr_5b_386A.png
    Cresselia | Manaphy | Phione | Heatran | Regigigas | Shaymin
    http://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/c/ca/Spr_5b_488.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/6/66/Spr_5b_490.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/3/3a/Spr_5b_489.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/0/04/Spr_5b_485.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/9/92/Spr_5b_486.pnghttp://archives.bulbagarden.net/media/upload/2/2f/Spr_5b_492S.png


    If you want me to I'll go more indepth on the reasons why either I think he could have these Legendaries, can't have the ones I listed, or both.

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